Bishop Avidly Opposes Bill Extending Time to File Child-Abuse Suits

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Paul	Bishop Avidly Opposes Bill Extending Time to File Child-Abuse Suits		Lead	[-]
Posts: 324 06/06/09 08:53:52	Tags : None No wonder bishops have little credibility. Bishop Nicholas A. DiMarzio of Brooklyn repeated a warning this week that he has leveled at lawmakers for months: If the statute of limitations on child sex-abuse lawsuits is temporarily lifted, as pending state legislation proposes, a cascade of very bad things will happen...............Bishop DiMarzio has mounted such an urgent and aggressive sally into the political realm that some elected officials and community leaders have questioned whether he has overstepped church-state boundaries. In the darkest view, some say he entered into a pact with a Brooklyn power broker, Assemblyman Vito J. Lopez - ousting a priest as head of a Brooklyn community group that was tangling with Mr. Lopez. In return, according to this narrative, Mr. Lopez wrote a competing bill that would not lift the statute of limitations on abuse lawsuits. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/nyregion/05abuse.html?_r=1 Concern over finding the culprits and justice for victims .........not even in the picture
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon...		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 60 06/08/09 11:12:39	Many have been unproven ohers have been proven false. Some claims go back 50 years so the abilityto defend against ancient claims is near impossible.
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Paul		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 328 06/08/09 14:40:20	Some claims go back 50 years so the abilityto defend against ancient claims is near impossible. As is the ability to proove them. But justice was not on the bishop's agenda
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon...		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 61 06/08/09 15:00:04	Neither was living in the distant past. I attended a Catholic school in 1953. If I claimed abuse for a big financial return how could the church defend itself? The priest must be long gone.
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MartiW		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3961 06/08/09 15:29:07 ezOP	When they go that far back and especially if the priest is dead, there is no purpose. DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Natej1		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 883 06/08/09 17:20:50 Camper	Paul wrote: Some claims go back 50 years so the abilityto defend against ancient claims is near impossible. As is the ability to proove them. But justice was not on the bishop's agenda I disagree. I see no justice in having parishioners (you and me) pay to defend against an unending stream of unprovable or bogus claims. The Church has gained a reputation as a "deep pocket" which some lawyers are happy to exploit for either financial or anti-Catholic reasons. There needs to be some limits.
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Paul		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 329 06/08/09 17:25:54	I disagree. I see no justice in having parishioners (you and me) pay to defend against an unending stream of unprovable or bogus claims If they are bogus then we will see There needs to be some limits. There is no limit to the damage done to our church by stonewalling bishops who are more concerned with finances than justice. Jesus threw those folks out
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Burke		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4788 06/08/09 18:06:06 Camper	Hi Paul, > If they are bogus then we will see I guess it comes down to how many schools and churches would need to be sold off to sort out the wheat from the chaff? In your beautiful country litigation is a way of life. I can now see the long lines of litigants claiming that father so-and-so, who died in 1973, traumatized me for life. There is a statute of limitation on a number of crimes for a reason, justice being the big one. > There is no limit to the damage done to our church by stonewalling bishops who are more concerned with finances than justice. And you know this how? While finances need to be on their minds I would suggest that justice for those who can no longer defend themselves is there as well. How many ruined reputations of priests long dead are acceptable in the witch hunt? And believe me a witch hunt it will quickly become. > Jesus threw those folks out No he didn't, he sat down and ate with them. Peace,
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Paul		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 330 06/08/09 19:30:55	And you know this how? While finances need to be on their minds I would suggest that justice for those who can no longer defend themselves is there as well. How many ruined reputations of priests long dead are acceptable in the witch hunt? And believe me a witch hunt it will quickly become. That's why we have courts. What is really troubeling is that the bishop extends no sympathy to the victims but is concerned only with finances. Jesus threw them out of the temple.
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MartiW		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3962 06/08/09 19:35:31 ezOP	Jesus tossed out the one's trying to make money from His Father's house. No amount of money fixes the damage done by a child molestor. No amount of money makes everything all right. Money in these cases of litigation are punitive. If the priest is dead, who are you punishing? There has to be some end or it is not justice at all, just a free-for-all where if you convince the jurors, who at this point are being drawn from a pool the majority of whom are almost certain 99.9% of priests are molestors, you win the jackpot. That is not justice and that is not fixing anything. If it was about justice, then the main aim would be to toss the offending priests in prison, not soak the Church for money. DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Paul		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 331 06/08/09 21:29:54	No amount of money fixes the damage done by a child molestor. No amount of money makes everything all right. The money is to help rebuild the lives of the victims. The Irish church has the same idea you do. The church was responsible for allowing this abomination to go on and the church should be liable. As for prison I have long thought cardinal Law, among others, should have gone to prison for obstruction of justice. Some priests did go to prison. My original pont stands. the bishop is only worried about the church finances not the victims. The bishops keep loosing credibility The bishop takes this avioding justice to the point of creating even more injustice......................................... Brooklyn Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio threatened state lawmakers by vowing to close churches in their districts - and blame them for the closures - if they dared support a bill making it easier for people who were sexually assaulted as kids to sue, legislators told The Post. They said the dark warning came during a "legislative breakfast" at DiMarzio's Brooklyn residence, as he told the gathering of about 20 state and city politicians that he would retaliate against Albany lawmakers if they backed the Child Victims Act. So he was going to close churches to avoid those pesky victims Last Edited By: Paul 06/08/09 21:46:24. Edited 1 time.
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Burke		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4789 06/08/09 21:40:19 Camper	Hi Paul, > That's why we have courts. You didn't answer the question. How much money are you prepared to pony up to allow the American Church to sort out the wheat from the chaff in the courts? Peace,
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MartiW		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3963 06/08/09 21:52:02 ezOP	In what way are the lives of the victims in need of rebuilding? DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Burke		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4790 06/09/09 08:09:53 Camper	Hi Marti, That victims sometimes suffer life-long trauma cannot be disputed. I believe that while the statute of limitations on court action should not be extended, but any victim that comes forward deserves the pastoral care of the Church. Paul is right in one sense and that is that the financial considerations would be major part of the bishop's reaction. One of the weaknesses of our Church structure is that pastors must be good administrators, thus sometimes the spiritual side suffers. I believe the Church needs to begin moving the management of the temporal goods of the Church over to the laity. Peace,
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MartiW		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3964 06/09/09 08:33:17 ezOP	That the suffer life-long trauma is not in question. It is a question of what life rebuilding they need that costs millions of dollars. The claims are getting fewer and the payoffs are rising. That lawyers are getting 40% or so is what is driving the legislation to extend the statute of limitations because they are running out of people who fit and therefore they are going to run out of payoffs as the payoffs get higher and higher. Were the settlements merely that the CHurch was responsible for paying for psychiatric counselling for the victim for as long as they need it, would be one thing and that would be less costly than these millions that the lawyers are treating as windfalls. I could get into the intricacies of church finance in the comparison between Catholic where the Church controls the finances and Protestant where the laity controls the finance, but suffice to say what you get when the laity controls the finances is a lot of wasted money and a lot of preaching to itching ears. THe current state of litigation with regards to the CHurch in the US is like watching kids smack a pinata. It may be that what was started in colonial America of trying to run the Catholics out may come to fruition. Those who would like to see this occur and have been gleeful over the large payoffs are going to find it comes home to roost. When the Church is wrung dry, the lawyers will go after the lesser targets having established a proven way to make money. It means you will see them sue the small disconnnected congregations of Baptists, Methodists, etc. one by one. This current madness is not good for anyone other than the lawyers and the atheists who would like to see all religion disappear from America. DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Paul		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 332 06/09/09 08:43:07	You didn't answer the question. How much money are you prepared to pony up to allow the American Church to sort out the wheat from the chaff in the courts? Whatever it takes to do justice to the victims of clergy abuse and the hirearchial misconduct that fostered it. In what way are the lives of the victims in need of rebuilding? The insensitivity of that question is truly astounding. I get the distinct feeling that some Catholics still don't grasp the magnitude of what was done.
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MartiW		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3966 06/09/09 09:19:09 ezOP	It is not an insensitive question. I am asking what needs to be rebuilt so that a fair financial estimate can be done. Heaping millions of dollars out and around is not justice. If the money is indeed going to repair or rebuild something, then it is a fair question to ask in what way is there a need for rebuilding. You are the one who claimed that was what the money was being used for. If not, and it would seem that estimates of costs of mental health care,etc. are not even being prepared, then the money is purely punitive in nature. If that is the case, then we need to ask who is being punished if the priests in question are dead and gone. Can you demonstrate a multitude of victims who have existed well past the 5 year post adult years statute of limitations who are without a life? I do not mean to be crude, but there are just some things that money cannot buy. You cannot buy back the lost innocence of youth. It would have been far more effective to make a general ruling requiring each docese to set up a counseling service to provide free help to all victims regardless of when they were abused and to prosecute every pedophile that stood accused and put them in prison. This would be justice and would provide the proper help to those who need the help. AS it is, we are just tossing money around and creating a class of lawyers that are getting rich by using the victims again. Imagine the good that could have actually been done with the 40% of all those millions that have lined lawyers pockets. Every diocese could have a mental health service that could provide help beyond just the abused. Now, if you can demonstrate that my assessment is wrong and that these victims require millions for life rebuilding, then do show it. Everything I have read shows the awards to be punitive, not reparitive. DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon...		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 63 06/09/09 10:01:56	I can see some justification for it cept for one problem. It happens in schools, Protestant churches, police departments, etc. Why aren't theybeing sued decades late and for what amount? Why is the Catholic church suffering discrimination that others do not? And the news media does a lot of reporting on this issue, much of t erronous. Have you ever seen the news media report n molestation among its own?
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Paul		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 334 06/09/09 13:41:22	You are the one who claimed that was what the money was being used for. If not, and it would seem that estimates of costs of mental health care,etc. are not even being prepared, then the money is purely punitive in nature Part of the settlement takes fixing mental problems of the victims and part of it is punitive, as it should be. The awarding of money takes place after finding of guilt
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MartiW		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3967 06/09/09 15:44:53 ezOP	What has happened is that the early claims primed the pump and now the later ones are being paid more and more. I am not being insensitive, but again who are they punishing as they attempt to slaughter a cash cow? DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Paul		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 336 06/09/09 18:14:40	but again who are they punishing as they attempt to slaughter a cash cow? Cash cow? Punishing? Perhaps once the Catholics in the pews realize what their bishops have cost the church in terms of the horror of the abuse and the loss of faith in the clergy we can have a church that will be more open and transparent without the clericalism which was at the heart of the coverup, this is ,as the ads say, is priceless. I'm not as concerned with the money as I am with the credibility of our church which at the moment is pretty low.
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