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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon... |
Lutherans may get gay clergy |
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leoxiii |
#1 | |||
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Why can no one with a gay orientation be ordained to the priesthood?
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Natej1 |
#2 | |||
leoxiii wrote:I don't know that they can't since many have been. The question has an obvious answer though, The same reason known alcoholics shouldn't take jobs as liquor store night watchmen at the the warehouse. The same reason kloptomaniacs shouldn't be assigned to take up the church collection. Why increase the odds of failure by increasing the temptation to fail in persons with a proclivity to fail. The article starting this thread had nothing to do with orientation however, It concerns practicing homosexuals. |
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impy44.allshadesofhumour |
Correct me if I'm in error? | #3 | ||
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Unfortunately there are too many RC homosexual priests in the priesthood and always have been to my understanding.
I guess they used the "no tell" theory to get in but ... sooner than not ...many were exposed. If they are "not" practicing homsexuality I understand it's not a sin ... ... ... if homosexual by name only then it's accepted as not a sin. Correct me, anyone, if I am wrong. |
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Sid2 |
#4 | |||
impy44 wrote: impy: All you have done is comment on the elephant in the sacristy. . . . truth be know, without gay clergy the RCC would cease to function. I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
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MartiW |
#5 | |||
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Sid,
Please provide proof of your contention or state it as opinion rather than fact.
DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum
diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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mindyanders |
#6 | |||
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Sid2,
.."truth be know, without gay clergy the RCC would cease to function." That's a little bit over the top, but I see you have the practice of being melodramatic. Have you ever thought there is a supernatural demonic element at work not only re this issue? I think Fundamentalists may have a bit of a head start on recognizing just where we may be in the prophetic time line. Ever read II Timothy 3? Take a look. At no time in history is the amplification of those words more evident, as well as the synoptic Gospels in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24. Unless you are a preterist, you must admit it is compelling to view what's happening to the Christian religion as a whole, as well as world events and even climatology, to understand that we may very well be entering the Great Tribulation. No "rapture" (bunk theology) but an assault on Christianity as a whole, part of the great falling away (apostasy) prophesied in several places in Scripture, at a time that Israel has returned as a physical nation once again. We had the defeat of communism as a threatening force in the 80's but now we have a pro-communist president. South America also is leaning far left. We are about to loose our sovereignty if Obama signs the treaty mentioned in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5AKsXVmS3E Who Will Make War With The Beast it says in Revelation. If there is a global government, which looks like it is well on the way, the AntiChrist is not far away. The Apocalypse is not some conspiracy theory, and even the UFO phenomena is part of this whole scenario, and you're worried about homosexual priests? Better get off your soap box and get to looking into these things, I've studied this stuff for years, and though there is quite a bit of BS out there, quite a bit of it is not.
Last Edited By: mindyanders 10/19/09 14:14:19.
Edited 1 time.
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Sid2 |
#7 | |||
MartiW wrote: This source is 16 pages .pdf: Here are a few tidbits:
I am suggesting that the reality of bishops‟ sexual orientation/behavior and the need to hide it is a significant element in clerical culture and structure that keeps us from facing basic facts about how that culture operates and affects millions of people.
The most modest and realistic estimates of the homosexual orientation within the RC priest population in the U.S. are 30 percent. I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
Last Edited By: Sid2 10/19/09 15:12:15.
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Sid2 |
#8 | |||
mindyanders wrote: This thread is about gay clergy, start a new thread instead of trying to derail this one. I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
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Hasah |
#9 | |||
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Sid,
I had my times of being ticked off at Catholic and I was trying to pin point exactly where but you know, it probably was all the anti-Catholic sites I gazed at before deciding to come back. I have my own battles ATM and miss places of old but got to keep going. I'm not anti Protestant either, my great Aunt was Lutheran. I still remember being a kid when we were visiting at her house and she told my parents she didn't believe what we believed but she had always wanted a rosary. When she died my family found that rosary with a note in it's case to be passed on to me. I still have that. She made it clear she didn't believe in Catholic teaching but she sure never did all the dumb comments I used to in my own anti days... not sure why I did that other than I was clueless. Need to keep going forward, pressing on. |
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MartiW |
#10 | |||
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Sid,
That is someone's opinion that the Church would fall. It is not fact.
DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum
diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Sid2 |
#11 | |||
MartiW wrote: Richard Sipe is about as authoritative a source that can be found on celibacy in the Catholic priesthood. . . . I leave you this quote: Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
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MartiW |
#12 | |||
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You are free to state opinion, but make sure it is stated as opinion.
DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum
diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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Sid2 |
#13 | |||
MartiW wrote: Ladies first. You call anything that doesn't follow your church's company line as heretical and then delete it. I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
Last Edited By: Sid2 10/19/09 17:23:16.
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MartiW |
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No. THe only thing I have deleted is links posted to lead others to heretical sites. If you have something to post, post it. Don't use this site to try to
lead others elsewhere.
What you are doing now is bearing witness to a falsehood. I have not deleted any answers you have made -- only links.
DEUS meus, ex toto corde amo Te super omnia, quia es infinite bonus et infinite amabilis; et ob amorem Tui proximum meum
diligo sicut meipsum, eique, si quid in me offendit, ignosco.
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon... |
#15 | |||
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Richard Sipe is an authority? Who says so? Oh I see, he claims he is an authority.
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon... |
#16 | |||
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IV. Celibacy is Church Practice, Not Dogma
Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones. Matt. 19:29 - Jesus says that whoever gives up children for the sake of His name will receive a hundred times more and will inherit eternal life. Jesus praises celibacy when it is done for the sake of His kingdom. Matt. 22:30 - Jesus explains that in heaven there are no marriages. To bring about Jesus' kingdom on earth, priests live the heavenly consecration to God by not taking a wife in marriage. This way, priests are able to focus exclusively on the spiritual family, and not have any additional pressures of the biological family (which is for the vocation of marriage). This also makes it easier for priests to be transferred to different parishes where they are most needed without having to worry about the impact of their transfer on wife and children. 1 Cor 7:1 - Paul teaches that it is well for a man not to touch a woman. This is the choice that the Catholic priests of the Roman rite freely make. 1 Cor. 7:7 - Paul also acknowledges that celibacy is a gift from God and wishes that all were celibate like he is. 1 Cor. 7:27 - Paul teaches men that they should not seek marriage. In Paul's opinion, marriage introduces worldly temptations that can interfere with one's relationship with God, specifically regarding those who will become full-time ministers in the Church. 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38 - Paul recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom. He "who refrains from marriage will do better." 1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many Protestants use this verse to prove that the Church's celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church's Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry; celibacy is only a disciplinary rule for the clergy of the Roman rite). Therefore, this text has nothing to do with imposing a marriage requirement on becoming a bishop. 1 Tim. 4:3 - in this verse, Paul refers to deceitful doctrines that forbid marriage. Many non-Catholics also use this verse to impugn the Church's practice of celibacy. This is entirely misguided because the Catholic Church (unlike many Protestant churches) exalts marriage to a sacrament. In fact, marriage is elevated to a sacrament, but consecrated virginity is not. The Church declares marriage sacred, covenantal and lifegiving. Paul is referring to doctrines that forbid marriage and other goods when done outside the teaching of Christ and for a lessor good. Celibacy is an act of giving up one good (marriage and children) for a greater good (complete spiritual union with God). 1 Tim. 5:9-12 - Paul recommends that older widows take a pledge of celibacy. This was the beginning of women religious orders. 2 Tim. 2:3-4 - Paul instructs his bishop Timothy that no soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim his to satisfy the One who enlisted him. Paul is using an analogy to describe the role of the celibate priesthood in the Church. Rev. 14:4 - unlike our sinful world of the flesh, in heaven, those consecrated to virginity are honored. Isaiah 56:3-7 - the eunuchs who keep God's covenant will have a special place in the kingdom of heaven. Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children. Top |
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Sid2 |
Courageous Catholic exposes the Elephant in the Sacristy. . . | #17 | ||
Sid2 wrote: I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon... |
#18 | |||
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Yes. We can always rely on unnamed "reliable sources" and "insiders." I have a reliable source who tells me that Richard Sipe is a
transvestite.
It is also obviously clear that Sipe is not an authority on scripture. |
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Sid2 |
#19 | |||
wondrousgnat wrote: Richard Sipe's Credentials speak for themselves. . . . why don't you address the points presented instead of pretending to discredit the source? I would rather be honestly blunt than diplomatically untruthful.
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wondrousgnat.christiansvsnon... |
#20 | |||
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Why don't you address the scripture provided? My source is the bible and you are discrediting that.
If you have a denomination that is better than mine why don't you tell me what it is so I can join it? But that is another issue you will not address. Any reason I should respect you as a man? |
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