George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/topic/4871/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html en-us Copyright 2006, Yuku feeds@yuku.com (FeedMaster) webmaster@yuku.com (WebMaster) Sun, 31 May 2009 16:53:03 GMT Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:09:13 GMT Yuku Feeds 1.0 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 60 Yuku http://static.yuku.com//feed/bypass/images/button-yuku.png http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/topic/4871/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html Yuku - free hosted forums and profiles 88 31 {pics-1.1 "http://www.icra.org/ratingsv02.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (nz 1 vz 1 lz 1 oz 1 cz 1 ) "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0 )) Search Search Domain q http://yuku.com/search/direct/ <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43712/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43712 Now when you examine the arguments that the Church proposes for restricting the priesthood to men -- laid out in Inter insigniores by Paul VI and reaffirmed by John Paul II in Ordinatio sacerdotalis -- you see they're of the "wheat-not-rye" variety:
... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Paul) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43712 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:09:13 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43709/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43709 > Now I understand why Burke and Paul are always opponents of the Church

CR, with all due respect, you do not know what you talking about. Paul and I are ALWAYS opponents of the Church? I can't speak for Paul, But I submit myself to the authority of the Church in every instance. An all male priesthood is the teaching of the Church and that is fine with me. To begin to ordain women would land us in the same situation as the Anglicans when they began... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Burke) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43709 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:08:46 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43708/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43708 Why can't women be priests? Posted Jul. 22, 2005 10:04 AM || by Diogenes || category
http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43708 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:45:04 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43686/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43686 The day that the faithful universally call for female priests it will happen. Not in my lifetime or even the lifetime of my children, but perhaps someday

That's kind of my attitude as well. However I hope I live to see it happen. I've already seen things I once thought impossible so perhaps...................

My first experience with female clergy was in a Reform Jewish synagogue. It was a bit of a culture shock at first but after a... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Paul) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43686 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:10:51 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43679/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43679
Thank you, I does get a little hairy when people are attempting to defend a position. Of course that never happens with you and meimage. Seriously, to give you an example of how things work: For centuries women were not allowed in the sanctuary, ever. After Vatican II women slowly began to become ministers of the word, which entailed entering the sanctuary. That occurred without a ripple among the faithful.... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Burke) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43679 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:53:52 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43675/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43675
I've got no problem with your explanation - it is entirely rational. It is the defence of the church's position that has been mounted by others here that I have taken issue with.
]]> feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43675 Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:55:26 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43667/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43667
> And it simply means the exclusion of women is a purely cultural thing, As times have changed there is no reason to exclude them now, right?

Two things: in any long standing organization symbolism is important even after the reason for it might be perceived as redundant. The Royal Navy offers the royal toast seated from the days of sail for reasons of the motion of the ships. Today that is no longer necessary, but it is carried on nonetheless. The Church is... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Burke) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43667 Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:30:25 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43665/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43665
> Would his message be diminished if he was a female?

Today, probably not, but in the cultural context into which he came it would have been greatly diminished.
I would agree with that. And it simply means the exclusion of women is a purely cultural thing, As times have changed there is no reason to exclude them now, right?


Every organization has rules and restrictions that... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43665 Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:49:36 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43664/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43664 MartiW wrote:
As far as I know a man's race does not preclude him from being a father. Do you know of a race where they have no fathers?

However, women cannot be fathers.
Being a father is a different thing to being a priest. You seem to have latched onto the idea that fatherhood and pristhood are the same thing. They are not. That's the idea I tried to get across with the analogy of cats and... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43664 Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:40:40 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43663/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43663
> Why?

Jesus was God come down to meet human beings face to face. He was true God and true human being and this is at the core of Christian faith. If you neuter God then that humanity fades and God's direct encounter with human beings would soon be lost.

> Would his message be diminished if he was a female?

Today, probably not, but in the cultural context into which he came it would have been greatly diminished.

> Does... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Burke) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43663 Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:29:56 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43662/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43662
However, women cannot be fathers. ]]> feeds@yuku.com (MartiW) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43662 Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:07:50 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43661/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43661 feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43661 Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:40:09 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43659/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43659 Whether you agree with the exclusion of women from priestly ministry of not, you must at least concede the point however weak you might believe it to be.


Concession noted ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Paul) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43659 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:53:17 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43656/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43656
> And we all know that God wouldn't call a woman to a man's job, after all we also know God is a man

Sarcasm aside, God is beyond our ability to comprehend and so his revelation comes to us on a human level. God is a triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and our only face to face encounter with God was in the person of Jesus Christ, who is God come down to interact with us directly. If we are going to refer to God in human terms the male gender is the... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Burke) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43656 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:25:23 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43653/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43653 Nobody has the right to be a priest. It is a gift, a calling

And we all know that God wouldn't call a woman to a man's job, after all we also know God is a man ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Paul) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43653 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:47:18 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43651/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43651 feeds@yuku.com (MartiW) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43651 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:16:34 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43650/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43650
2. With all due respect I think your logic is terribly flawed. Your argument is similar to "Dogs are pets. Cats are not dogs. Therefore cats cannot be pets." Your argument just substitutes "men for dogs, women for cats and priests for pets.


]]> feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43650 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:40:25 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43649/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43649 feeds@yuku.com (MartiW) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43649 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:53:24 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43647/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43647
I think you need to ask yourself if your God would refuse to acknowledge the prayers and offerings of the people in a congregation presided over by a female priest.

If you believe he would care one iota whether it was a man or a woman then you believe in a far lesser god than I thought you did.


]]> feeds@yuku.com (Argy Lacedom) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43647 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:05:06 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/reply/43646/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html#reply-43646
Women do not perform ministerial roles identical to those of priests. There are no such roles in other ecclesial communities.

Jesus Christ has a body. That body is male.

Again you confuse jobs with roles. I am not the father in my family. I am the mom. Weilding... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (MartiW) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/sreply/43646 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:11:00 GMT <![CDATA[ George Tiller - Torturer and Mass Murderer died today. ]]> http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/topic/4871/t/George-Tiller-Torturer-and-Mass-Murderer-died-today-.html feeds@yuku.com (Isabelle101) http://catholicdiscussion.yuku.com/topic/4871 Sun, 31 May 2009 16:53:03 GMT